Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel

Pete:

I believe you were correct, without a doubt, about it being Scoville and Gates.

This is from an 1868 newspaper.

Chicago Evening Post
May 14, 1868
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The only Sullivan I found that had a connection to New York was a man named Richard Sullivan ( 185 Des Plaines )...a printer, in the 1871 Chicago Merchants Directory.
I don't think a cooper ( a person who makes barrels, casks, and kegs) would be in that directory.....but I thought it might be worth a shot.
He lived just four doors down from 176 Des Plaines....on the opposite side of the street.

Since neither the prosecution nor the defense could get Alice to divulge what her maiden name was, where she was born, or any important data, I think we're screwed.....

  She was a little wifty.....she and one of the attorneys went round and round on what constituted a crime, if you recall.

Yes, I thought her answer was hilarious - why did you get two years "Well, not buying a watch?"

No problem, Howard.

I haven't considered Alice Sullivan in that light, I actually thought her refusal to give her maiden name was a real act of integrity.

Yes, it's confusing what she means by not seeing her family for four years or three years, I interpret it as her distinguishing between seeing them in the flesh, hearing from her parents (getting a letter) and hearing about her parents from her sister.

So she's answering differently because she interprets the questions a bit freely - she hasn't seen her parents in four years but she's heard from her sister a year ago who told her the parents are still alive, or something like that. She's perhaps a little slow - notice how the recorder keeps reminding the lawyers "She doesn't understand you" due to her limited vocabulary. Honestly the sketch in the paper seems to match, depicting a somewhat vapid woman.


Looking at her testimony:

She was born in White Plains - no state. I'm uncertain whether White Plains, Ill. was a real placename in the 19th century? I noticed it exists now, but did it then? I think it must be considered the most likely place for her origins.

She married a man called Sullivan; he was a first class cooper for Scoville & Bates in Chicago and worked for them 21 years.
I havent' found a known company by that name, but Scoville and Gates started a partnership in the 1840s, then formed their separate companies, so either she meant one of the companies or she meant he worked alternately for both?

She lived longer in Chicago than in NY, after her husband worked 21 years for Scoville & Bates, she lived with him in NY.

Her husband died in 11 may 1881, at the residence of his mother.

She was at the time living in White Plains (no state), with her parents and sisters (note: says sisters, not brothers and sisters. Either she had no brothers or they were adults living elsewhere at the time)

3-4 four years before 1891, her parents were living in Henry, Illinois. 1 year before 1891, she had a sister living in White Plains (no state) who'd communicated with her and told her the parents were still alive (and presumably still living in Henry).


White Plains and Henry are both placenames in Illinois, and her husband worked 21 years in Chicago. We don't know how long Alice lived with him in Chicago, but it was longer than she lived in NY. Speaking in 1891, she'd lived with her husband since he came to NY, that is before 1881.
So in 1891 she'd lived at least ten years in NY. This implies she'd lived more than ten years in Chicago, so probably at least from 1870-1880.

This puts her age at time of trial at least at 40? Born no later than 1850, in order to marry no later than 1870.

Her sketch in the paper places her age at anywhere from 25-55, I think.

Pete:

 At the Inquest, she says that she and her husband were in (moved to) New York after his 21 years for Scoville & Bates.
This means Alice was in New York prior to or during 1881.

 At the trial, she says she hasn't heard from her parents in four years ( 1887 ). They were living in Henry, Illinois.
Henry, Illinois is 130 miles southwest of Chicago.
 Then, she says she saw them three years ago ( 1888), but in the next sentence, she says four years.
She lived with her sister was in White Plains prior to the Brown murder......no idea when she left her sister in White Plains...
 Earlier ( on this thread) she claimed to be living with her parents in White Plains sometime after going back east....
.....but says she hadn't heard from them in four years ( 1887) and they were now the ones living in Illinois.

Nina just found a Dennis Sullivan in 1869 who was a bricklayer living at 175 South Des Plaines, Chicago, in the Chicago Directory.
There was a Patrick at 372 South...a sailor....and a painter named Patrick at 102 South Des Plaines.

Honestly, Sullivan comes across to us as a real bullshit artist.

Pete:
  Look at where Sullivan said her parents were in the trial transcript...at the beginning.

  It's Des Plaines ( I was in Des Plaines, Illinois, some 40-odd years ago ).

Here's her Coroner Inquest testimony vs. the Trial testimony:

First, the Coroner's Inquest testimony:



Now, the trial.....