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Messages - Kattrup

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1
General Discussion / Re: Sultan's Story Revisited
« on: September 15, 2026, 12:53:38 pm »
Sultan was telling the truth, and Ali was certainly in contact with Carrie Brown's body after the murder, as evidenced by her blood on him.

The question is if he actually murdered her.

At any rate, the smell: Ali was a hardened veteran from a dirty war, and was used to living in squalid circumstances at a time when pungent odors were a daily part of life - as Mike says, the hotel itself was no flowershop.

He was probably also blind drunk. So I find it possible that he could have entered the room, noticed she was dead, but still searched her for loot.

Her pockets were turned out, so someone searched through them, and she didn't have the money (50 cents or so) she would have gotten from C. Kniclo. To me that sounds more like Ali searching her, than Kniclo searching her after killing her - Kniclo had no problem springing for ale when she asked, so he was not shy on cash. I also recall that Carrie Brown's face was wrapped, indicating the killer was uncomfortable around the body, this to me signals a reluctance to touch her, be around her and by extension to search her belongings.


2
General Discussion / Re: An Inquiry From France- 1897
« on: September 13, 2026, 07:56:22 am »
Quote from: Howard Brown on September 12, 2026, 09:17:50 pm

I'm with you on the notary contacting Bruwaert in relation to something concerning the wife. In one, or maybe more,
articles, his wife was reported dead.

One report was in the New York Sun, April 24, 1902...but I don't think the actual date or an approximate date was ever mentioned.
Actually, I realised some time after I posted that it couldn't be about the wife's death since it is stated "Amer Ben Ali, the letter said, had a wife and two children"

My best guess is some other relative died and the family wanted to know if Ali was alive and coming home at some point or not.

3
General Discussion / Re: Our Man In Algeria: Abdelouahab Aissaoui 2026 Update
« on: September 13, 2026, 04:51:52 am »
Quote from: Jose Oranto on September 09, 2026, 09:53:26 pm

I am tempted to change the name Tiamina to Yamena in my book.
I would advise against it, Jose, as there's no way to be certain of her original name, for instance Abdelouahab mentioned different versions or spellings of the name exist, so how would you decide which is correct? you ought of course to include a note or something to the effect that it would have been a latin script transcription of an arabic name.

Abdelouahab mentions Yamena as most likely candidate, and it is the best candidate name. Looking online, it seems that Djamina/Jamina is a north African variant of Yamena, common in Algeria and Morocco, probably because some results mention it as the common "french colonial transliteration" of Yamena. So perhaps that is part of what he meant, as Yamena, at least to my layman ears, lacks the T/Cia/Cha/Dja sound at the start of TIAmina. The letter Y at the beginning, to me, signifying a soft J, as i "Yes".

So personally I think she was named Djamina - I do not know if modern transcriptions of Yamena include the DJA-sound at the start, if they do, then Yamena is of course correct, but to an ignorant reader like me, there is a big difference in pronunciation between the transcriptions Djamina/Jamina/Dyamina and Yamina. I. e. I would never attempt to pronounce Yamena as Dyamena, even if the pronunciation is theoretically included in the transcription to Western script, but from the amateur transcription of Tiamina in 1891 we know that her name should be pronounced something more like Dyamina and not Yamina.

Another candidate name could perhaps be Thamina/Tamina (a female name and at least phonetically also the name of a sweet dessert in Algeria).
 

4
General Discussion / Re: Our Man In Algeria: Abdelouahab Aissaoui 2026 Update
« on: September 12, 2026, 07:13:39 pm »
Quote from: Howard Brown on September 09, 2026, 08:21:27 pm
•   And finally:
In File No. 1, entitled “Pensions of Colonial and Indigenous Troops, 1850–1950,” there is a list of all the men who enlisted and served the French state during the period from 1850 to 1950. I searched for the name Amer Ben Ali, but I could not find it. I would therefore be grateful if you could search the file again, as I may have overlooked the name, or it may have appeared under a different spelling that I did not notice.
As for File No. 2, I found a list of soldiers who served in the Algerian Tirailleurs regiments, linked to military pay records covering the period from 1889 to 1911. Among them, I found more than one person named Amer Ben Ali; one was a sergeant, while another was an ordinary soldier, with the corresponding file number given for each of them.
When I searched for the soldier’s file using the serial number provided in the table, through the French Ministry of Defense archives, I found that the file is held by a separate archival institution and can only be consulted in person, as it has not yet been digitized.
But the question here is: is this really the Amer Ben Ali we are looking for? And could his administrative status have been regularized after his return to Algeria, so that he could receive the allowance? This is indeed possible.
In any case, the search for Amer Ben Ali is still ongoing!
I looked at the files, and did not see Ali - this was no surprise, as the first files lists soldiers receiving a pension - I do not believe that Ali received a pension, as he only served eight years, which was not enough to qualify for pension (today's Foreign Legion requires 15 years, for instance) - and the second one lists military payments 1889-1911 - again, Ali would not have received any military pay in that period.

5
General Discussion / Re: Our Man In Algeria: Abdelouahab Aissaoui 2026 Update
« on: September 12, 2026, 07:01:59 pm »
It is very good of Abdelouahab to undertake writing to those archival institutions.

It is certain that the French consulate in NY would have communicated with either the French Embassy in Washington and/or the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They would have received missives from back home, directing their efforts. Plus someone was deciding on money being spent on Robillard's efforts, on translators etc. So 100% some communication occurred and would have formed one or several files.

It is highly likely, but of course not as certain, that those files documenting that still exist, either at the National Archives in France, or at the Nantes Diplomatic Archives.

The files would most likely be based on the year the correspondence took place, so one in 1891, perhaps one around 1897 when the pardon efforts began, and either that would have continued for several years or another file would be created  again in 1901-02, when Ali was being repatriated.
Some administrations had an archival practice whereby older files were refiled with the new when something new occurred in an old case. if the French foreign service did that, then the files from 1891 could have been taken from the 1891-1892 series, and have been refiled together with the new files created in 1901-1902.

This is a long-winded way of saying that if he has not already, I suggest Abdelouahab ask about this transatlantic communication, if he's already in contact with the relevant archives.

I personally think it would also by far be the best way of actually finding some useful information on Ali's fate, since the French files from the time of his repatriation would most likely contain concrete information on what happened to him after he arrived in Europe. If he was eventually shipped to Algeria, some report back to the ministry would contain the date and place of his arrival, for instance.

6
General Discussion / Re: An Inquiry From France- 1897
« on: September 12, 2026, 06:41:39 pm »
Quote from: Howard Brown on September 11, 2026, 06:52:22 am

The French received information from back in France or Algeria and were responsible for the details listed in this article.
This information was now in two places: New York and back where it had originally come from.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the second article, Edmond Bruwaert received a letter from Algiers, inquiring about Amer Ben Ali.
Unless they were interested in knowing if he was still in prison or still alive, there shouldn't have been any other reason to ask
Bruwaert, since all the information gleaned at the time of the trial in the first article was already in their possession.

[...]
Why would the French notary overseas ask the
French Consulate in New York for information about a man that they were responsible for giving the Consulate in the first place?

As I understand it, the notary was a private citizen. Whatever information anyone from the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs had supplied to the French in Consulate in NY would have been unknown to the notary.

Why would a notary write and ask for infomation on Ali? Probably has to do with a death in the family - inheritance. Perhaps Ali's father died, and his brothers needed to divide his fields or farm animals or whatever. They therefore needed to know if Ali was still alive or not.
I do not believe that Ali came from an affluent family, but even so there might still have been farm land or fields to divide. I consider this the most likely option.

Or perhaps it was the death of his wife - the brothers wanting to find out who should take care of the children and if Ali was ever coming back.

As for Bruwaert taking it up and looking into it - I don't think he was the Consul back in 1891, so it seems natural that he'd want to familiarise himself with the case.

Spotted this in the Liverpool Daily Post July 3 1891
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7
1901-1902 / Re: John A. Lee
« on: September 09, 2026, 05:49:20 pm »
Finally (for now), Lee's appearance as a hot-tempered witness in a divorce case:
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Brooklyn Eagle, 7 February 1903


8
1901-1902 / Re: John A. Lee
« on: September 09, 2026, 05:44:56 pm »
Lee tried to sell his house for many years, from around 1898 onwards.

He was still trying on March 9, 1903, eager to move to Brooklyn

[ Guests cannot view attachments ] Brooklyn Eagle, March 9 1903

9
1901-1902 / Re: John A. Lee
« on: September 09, 2026, 05:42:59 pm »
Family events:

John A. Lee having the wedding of his cousin at his house:

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NY Tribune October 23 1887

The death of his sister, Florence Augusta, at his home:

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Brooklyn Eagle 25 September 1891

10
1901-1902 / Re: John A. Lee
« on: September 09, 2026, 05:40:28 pm »
John A. Lee's wife being taken to court for mortgage payments incurred by John A. Lee, together with Heman Clark, his sometime employer at O'Brien & Clark.

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Jersey Journal May 26 1886

11
General Discussion / Re: Red Carroll
« on: September 09, 2026, 12:49:31 pm »
Great research, Howard and Nina!

12
General Discussion / Re: interpreter Benoliel
« on: September 09, 2026, 12:49:03 pm »
D stands for David, he was a mason in the Dirigo Lodge.

His wife died 1906
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] Masonic Standard 1906

He was a member of the Union and Peace society, dedicated to burying needy members according to Iberian Jewish tradition
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and a member of the Hebrew Relief Society of New York.

He died, I believe, in 1915 and was referred to as one of the richest inhabitants of Flanders, Long Island

13
General Discussion / Re: interpreter Benoliel
« on: September 09, 2026, 12:44:16 pm »
Turns out he was also, like Sultan, in tobacco:

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From NY Great Industries, 1885

14
General Discussion / Interpreter Benoliel
« on: September 09, 2026, 12:43:29 pm »
I have not heard of this guy D. J. Benoliel before.

Brooklyn Citizen

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15
General Discussion / Re: Our Man In Algeria: Abdelouahab Aissaoui 2026 Update
« on: September 08, 2026, 05:09:19 pm »
Brooklyn Citizen 02.07.1891 has the brother's residence as being in "Nimeyslah"

No idea what could be meant - possibly M'Sila

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